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Hi All

First, thanks to those who have taken the time to sign the petition regarding the application by Antic Ltd for a license at the Earl Haig Hall.

Last night, myself, a few other local residents and Councillor David Winskill met with Max Alderman who is one of the partners at Antic, to give him the chance to express his case for the development of a pub in the Earl Haig Hall.

Whilst he did a good job at answering our numerous questions, I left feeling even more concerned than I did when I went into the meeting.  The key point for me is that Antic is requesting a late-night license until 01.00 am from Thursday to Saturday.  In practical terms, this means that they will stop serving at 01.00, which means that people will leave between 01.30 and 02.00. The doors will eventually be locked after staff have cashed and cleaned up which could be anything up to 02.30-03.00! 

The noise from people milling outside the venue, shouting, calling taxis and staff getting rid of bottles and rubbish at the time of the morning, will cause a massive disturbance to the street.  Further, Max did not seem to appreciate my concern that punters leaving the Queens at 11.30 will then all pile into the Earl Haig and that we could also have a situation whereby two pubs are closing at the same time, adding to disturbance that already exists in the area! 

Antic seem to have good intentions – they want to ensure that they build a strong relationship with the local community and many of their pubs have won awards for being ‘good pubs’.  However, they seem to have a bizarre assumption that the Earl Haig will attract an older crowd and not a younger ‘Kiss the Sky’ or ‘Kings Head’ crowd. I frankly think that is nonsense as anywhere with a late license will attract a younger and therefore noisier crowd.  Also, when asked if they would consider opening during normal pub hours, Max said that a great deal of their business is done between 10.00pm and 01.00am, which means a very busy pub during that time.

They believe that their application to run a pub will not need a change of use from the planning committee, so it is crucial that as many people as possible object to this.  This is essentially about the fabric of this road and the surrounding roads.  It will have a major impact on all of us and I would request that you send this petition to your friends and colleagues in the area asking them to sign it.  The more objectors, the better chance we have of stating our case for our community.  Please send your objection to the licensing team at Haringey Council – licensing@haringey.gov.uk or fill in the details on the form which can be found here - http://www.haringey.gov.uk/licensing_representation_form.pdf

Deadline is next Friday 28 September.

Thanks for your support

Miki Lentin

Fairfield Road



Tags: antic, earl haig

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Thanks Miki for all your hard work campaigning. This is such a shame.

I really don't think we can underestimate the affect this will have on Elder Avenue. The very late licensing has only been slightly tweaked and we have the undesirable benefits of security guards, cctv and security lighting for this late night venue on our doorsteps. Elder Avenue benefited from being close to the centre yet remained on a quiet residential street. My close neighbours and I will endure the certain noise, swearing, arguing, shouting, smoking of which is all associated with drinking late into the night and early mornings outside busy late night pubs. The Earl Haig has a large floor space and in order to be viable Antic will need to get punters in. This means a large amount of people hanging around outside and all the anti social behaviour which comes with this. In short, sleepless nights for those whose bedrooms face on to the street every night. If Antic don't pack people in and presumably buy the freehold, they will very likely sell onto another pub chain as the license stays with the premises. This could quite possibly be a Weatherspoons. On top of this, the marketable values of our homes has most likely dropped this evening as Elder Avenue will no longer be residential and instead the drinking end of town. This seems irreversible now unless the community can put more money towards a bid to keep this building for community use and not for late night drinking. No idea if this is possible?

Sorry to be so gloomy  James

I think the only option is to support the proposal for an housing development there(which I think should have been done from the beginning). It might be too late though. I am unfortunately a victim of noise myself and it is very upsetting and distressing.

The alternative is to get a solicitor once they start trading and try to get a review of the license. I think the licensing team at haringey is a disgrace, always favouring businesses rather than residents.

I don't think the licensing department is to blame, it is the law that they must uphold and its bizarre interpretation, where "uphold law and order and public safety" means putting in a completely useless after the event cctv system, and recruiting aggressive people to stand by the door and be aggressive.

Of course I agree that if the pub goes ahead, and then is a nuisance outside its permissions then a review should take place as at BG Max.

I looked on Haringey's planning site today. 

The Certificate of Lawfulness that was granted for the Earl Haig is mixed use (Sui Generis),  allowing use as community centre, training, lectures, public meetings, concerts, shows, dance and physical exercise classes, wedding receptions and other private parties.   It does not have a certificate which allows it to operate as a Public House.   So it seems that it still needs permission for a change of use.   Miki is making the point that now the building has a licence for late night drinking (and thus licensing committee considers that local residence can live with nuisance, anti social behaviour etc), then it will add weight to the proposal to grant permisson for a change of use.   However with a change of use there will be full consultation and so there is still some hope, especially if residents oppose it in full.  

What I find really difficult to understand is how the Licensing Committee could grant permission for late night drinking with the operation to run as a public house when the building does not have a Certificate of Lawfullness for this use.   Surely Licensing should have been accepted after a change of use.   Furthermore, Earl Haig is on a residential road.

I tried to speak to the planning officer today, waited for 40 minutes on hold and by the time an operator answered, they had all gone home. 

Any thoughts?


















I'm not so sure Adrian.  I was at the meeting last night and I think that the decisions were subjective.  If they were at least a bit bothered they could have granted a licence to at least 11pm like many public houses situated on highstreets and not even quiet residential streets.  At teast then we could have had a bit of peace from midnight onwards.  I really don' think cared about the numerous letters of objections from local residents.


I really wonder about the Licensing team at Haringey. They have had complaints about BG Max, club 56 in muswell hill, villiers terrace, the pavillion, etc. have they ever done anything about it? No, they let the residents suffer.

I believe other boroughs are much stricter. I think there should be something we can all do to change things in Haringey for good.

Is there anybody who knows the localism act? Or a solicitor? Does that give residents any power to change things? For example have all the licensed premises/social clubs to shut at 11pm?

Or is it just a dream?
Hi Nikki, yes I would indeed wonder about Licensing at Haringey! James and I felt that they really ran roughshod over us the other night. They were rude and frankly unconcerned about our feelings and objections! I will be writing to them to complain, not that it will do much good but may recommend to them that they are perhaps slightly more thoughtful of residents wishes in the future.
I think James is right, we need to ascertain next stages, find out what we do next and get to a stage where we are united in objecting to the demolishing of the hall. You may be interested in the story in the journal about the hearing here - http://www.hamhighbroadway.co.uk/news/crouch_end_hall_one_step_clos...
What about trying to start a borough-wide campaign "putting residents first" (or similar) to try and get a borough-wide, coordinated approach on late night noise and antisocial behaviour? Or maybe we can contact the new boss of Haringey Council to ask him to change things. We should be living in a democracy, after all...


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