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Has anyone else experienced long waiting times for the W7 bus lately? Twice this week I had to wait 15-16 minutes for a bus during morning rush hour (having gotten at the bus stop at 7am) even though, according to the timetable, buses should be coming every 3-6 minutes. Of course, after a 16 minute wait, two buses appear.

With no tube, Crouch Enders depend on a reliable bus service. I really wish our MP would understand this. I haven't taken the W3 in a while so I don't know if that bus is more reliable.

Would anyone know what could be causing this disruption with the W7 , and if it's meant to be permanent?




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Because Turnpike Lane is in Zone 3. I prefer to pay for a Zone 1 and 2 Oyster Card.

The W7 route is favoured partly because it offers a Zone 2 route into central London (the other stations being Zone 3), saving you a quid on a daily travelcard. Partly because it has the Victoria Line which is a good deal speedier than the Piccadilly. Depends where you're going of course.

Up in Muswell Hill people seem to split evenly between East Finchley, Highgate, Bounds Green, and the W7 route depending on their location.

Now, if you're prepared to wait until 2030 for a train (the year rather than half past eight), Crossrail 2 could be coming to Turnpike Lane/Alexandra Palace, which may speed things up (or may not given the circulatory route). Although having said that Haringey Council are lobbying hard to have the station at Wood Green instead - which is considerably less useful for those of us in Hornsey, Crouch End or Muswell Hill. Plus ça change.

Just a quick comment on Mark's opinion that "the Victoria Line...is a good deal speedier than the Piccadilly" from Finsbury Park. This may be so if travelling to Green Park, but invariably during the rush hour when I travel to or via Kings Cross I choose the Piccadilly Line because the carriages aren't cattle-car jam-packed, and the travel time difference is only about 90 seconds. I wonder how many passengers per year suffer from severe health problems as a result of using the Victoria Line during peak periods. Any travel alternative is preferable to that experience.

If you're going to F. Park, have any of you ever considering walking? With ones legs you can't help feel more in control and with all the stopping and starting it's not that much longer than the bus, if you factor in waiting time/ stop start.

And think of the calories shred, at this gluttonous time of year!

Barbara, but it would take me an hour to walk to Finsbury Park from my home. I am not doing that twice a day, especially during the dark winter mornings and evenings and especially not after having worked a stressful, 12 hour day. With the high cost of TFL travel, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect reliable bus services, especially during rush hour.   

Yes, Ella, but think of all those calories shed, non?

Also, an hour? Where do you live?

I'm closer to Muswell Hill. It'll take a good hour to walk to Finsbury Park.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for walking and I'm into exercising so I understand what you mean by burning calories. But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect reliable bus service in Crouch End, especially during rush hour.    

According to the Ham and High the W3 will get two more buses per rush hour from January 30th. Two more buses per hour doesn't seem much but af full this would carry 120+ more passengers. Would that clear the queues? Has this w3 petition for more buses to Finsbury Park done the trick

Some interesting statistics, which you can find on the TfL website at https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/buses, reveal that the W7 is the most heavily-used bus service in the whole of London, in terms of passengers per km.  The W3 comes 31st on the list (out of 663 routes in total).


W7 - 10.9 passengers per km (1st)

41 - 7.9 (14th)

W3 - 7.0 (33rd)

91 - 5.9 (88th)

The statistics cover the 12 month period from Apr 14 to Apr 15.

So it looks as though Crouch Enders are some of TfL's best customers and deserve some priority treatment.

Marvellous stat. We should wear it as a badge of honour.

The W7 has always been busy - and always an innovator too. Quoting notes on the subject:

Route W7 (ex-212)

A key route, and one of the busiest routes in London, connecting tube-less Muswell Hill and Crouch End with Finsbury Park.

Horse-drawn buses were first licenced in 1901 and ran until the introduction of the no.111 motor-bus service in 1914. It was limited to single-deck operation by the weak railway bridge over the branch line to Alexandra Palace and the significant gradient of Muswell Hill. It became one of the first routes to have bus-stops (four: Muswell Hill Broadway, Victoria Hotel, Crouch End Clock Tower and Finsbury Park Station) and by the 1920s was operating at a 2 minute frequency.

In 1934 the route was renumbered as the 212. RF buses were introduced in 1953, with a further attempt to address capacity through an express service (it ran from 1955 to 1968). Finally the closure of the rail line and strengthening of the bridge at Muswell Hill allowed the introduction of double-deck RTs in 1960 (express service pictured May 1968) and Routemasters from 1963. The route was renumbered W7 in 1969.

The continuing high demand led to the route hosting the trial of pay-before-you-board in 2001 – for years it remained the only suburban double-deck route to carry the system.

I had no idea. All 4 of these routes are well up the list, the W5 less so.

10.9 passengers per kilometre seems not many to me. Do London Buses make a profit? Where do I look to find out?

A complaint about the W3 has been raised , in that it leaves potential passengers standing at Crouch End bus stops during the morning rush hour. Presumably the number of  passengers per km are in the order of 60 - 70 for those hours for those stops. I guess somewhere in the computer that records Oyster usage this detail would be available.

On another topic - what is Traffic Hierarchy 

I don't know about buses specifically, but TfL as a whole makes a substantial operating loss with fares accounting for only 40% of its income.  It is still heavily dependent on government grants and borrowed money.


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