Update from Discussion re future of #earlhaighall

[Miki Lentin]

Hi All

First, thanks to those who have taken the time to sign the petition regarding the application by Antic Ltd for a license at the Earl Haig Hall.

Last night, myself, a few other local residents and Councillor David Winskill met with Max Alderman who is one of the partners at Antic, to give him the chance to express his case for the development of a pub in the Earl Haig Hall.

Whilst he did a good job at answering our numerous questions, I left feeling even more concerned than I did when I went into the meeting.  The key point for me is that Antic is requesting a late-night license until 01.00 am from Thursday to Saturday.  In practical terms, this means that they will stop serving at 01.00, which means that people will leave between 01.30 and 02.00. The doors will eventually be locked after staff have cashed and cleaned up which could be anything up to 02.30-03.00! 

The noise from people milling outside the venue, shouting, calling taxis and staff getting rid of bottles and rubbish at the time of the morning, will cause a massive disturbance to the street.  Further, Max did not seem to appreciate my concern that punters leaving the Queens at 11.30 will then all pile into the Earl Haig and that we could also have a situation whereby two pubs are closing at the same time, adding to disturbance that already exists in the area! 

Antic seem to have good intentions – they want to ensure that they build a strong relationship with the local community and many of their pubs have won awards for being ‘good pubs’.  However, they seem to have a bizarre assumption that the Earl Haig will attract an older crowd and not a younger ‘Kiss the Sky’ or ‘Kings Head’ crowd. I frankly think that is nonsense as anywhere with a late license will attract a younger and therefore noisier crowd.  Also, when asked if they would consider opening during normal pub hours, Max said that a great deal of their business is done between 10.00pm and 01.00am, which means a very busy pub during that time.

They believe that their application to run a pub will not need a change of use from the planning committee, so it is crucial that as many people as possible object to this.  This is essentially about the fabric of this road and the surrounding roads.  It will have a major impact on all of us and I would request that you send this petition to your friends and colleagues in the area asking them to sign it.  The more objectors, the better chance we have of stating our case for our community.  Please send your objection to the licensing team at Haringey Council – [e-mail] or fill in the details on the form which can be found here - http://www.haringey.gov.uk/licensing_representation_form.pdf

Deadline is next Friday 28 September.

Thanks for your support

Miki Lentin

Fairfield Road

[e-mail]

07976793666

[Nikki]

Hi, please note that there has been another application for 3/4 houses. I would suggest you just accept that so that you avoid pubs/clubs etc. I am not linked to the owners, I am just suffering the consequences of living next to a late night venue. Have a look on the planning portal.

Nikki

[Miki Lentin]

Thanks Nikki - yes know about this - lets see what happens

Miki

[Miki Lentin]

Just heard that Licensing Committee at Haringey Council will hear this application next Thursday 11 October at the Haringey Civic Centre at 7pm. If you can come and show support please do! We now have 124 supporters to the petition which is also good news!!!

[Joanna Wells]

It is really disappointing for those of us who have been in the area for years and seen the Earl Haig as a living breathing space - to hear others object to having a space for people to meet and socialise. Please think again. To support an unimaginative housing development that will see a place full of history and potential obliterated and demolished is deeply unimaginative itself.

Whatever personal objections to a pub - and I live opposite and also have a young family - a housing development will significantly change the character of the local area and the road itself. Does anyone really believe that the proposed housing will add to the area and the current late Victorian and Edwardian stock or replace the charm of the single story Earl Haig buildling? The architectural plan is woeful, and no doubt the buildings will be cheaply built and of substandard materials so the profits will be maximised. In a few years the houses will look as cheap and nasty as all the other developments that have grown up around this area.

From a personal perspective the view from my front room will be be obliterated and the light and atmosphere changed if the housing is pushed through. So personally I would much rather a few rowdy nights with a pub over the road than lose my view. We live in central Crouch End - not the suburbs!! I am trying to put my own transient, Nimbyist tendacies aside and think about the longer term and what would be good for the wider local community.

The opportunity to use and love this building will never return once the Earl Haig is demolished. We should think locally, as a neighbourhood and what is best for Crouch End and Crouch Enders.

[J Key]

Dear Joanna

I do think that you underestimate the disturbance that a late night pub directly opposite will cause us. I too live opposite and maybe you are fortunate to sleep through the drunken arguments, shouting, swearing, and occassional fights as people leave the Queens further down the road,  but I'm afraid I do not.   I respect your opinion that the Earl Haig is to you an attractive building along the street, but on balance, the last thing I would wish to see is this building converted into a late night pub on our doorsteps.  When we talk of community, it is this side of our community that I really do not wish to experience so close to home and so late into the night/morning.  With the Queens and this addional pub sitting side by side, the character of our end of the road will certainly change and I fear for the worse.  What starts off with the intention of being a ' tradional old pub' might so easily change.  With such a late night license too, we could pretty much be living next to a night club.  The beauty of our location was being close to the heart of Crouch End yet still living on a residential street and this would longer be the case. The atmosphere outside our homes would certainly deteriate as our end of the street would be the party end with all sorts congregating late into the night.   In consideration, I would much rather see a small community centre or the space being used for residential purposes.  Even putting my own fears aside, I cannot see how another late night pub could possible be the best for Crouch End and importantly our immediate neighbourhood.    James

[Joanna Wells]

Thanks James - I did not say I was in support of the Antic development! I was just suggesting to support a building development - as argued above - because it wasn't a pub isn't the way to go! When the Earl Haig ran as a community hall it was hired occasional Fridays and Saturdays. If the EH is going to be used for the community and if it is going to be a viable concern then whatever form it takes it may require an entertainment licence as in the past, so we residents may have to shoulder this.

Thanks, Joanna

[J Key]

I take your point Joanna

 

Thanks James. 

[Miki Lentin]

Hi All

If anyone would like to attend the Licensing Committee hearing, please come along. It's at 7pm on Thursday 11 October at the Haringey Civic Cent in Wood Green.

A map of the address is here - http://bit.ly/TacEpb

Please come and show your support.

Thanks
Miki

[Adrian Essex]

Here's agovernment thing a ma jig designed to enable communities to take actual possession of local assets. Perhaps this scheme might make my shared ownership idea a runner though perhaps not as a brewery

[Miki Lentin]

Hi All

Change of plan - the hearing is now on Thursday 18 October at the Haringey Civic Centre at Wood Green and not this Thursday 11 October.

Thanks
Miki

[Miki Lentin]

Hi All

Quick reminder - the meeting is this Thursday at 7pm at Haringey Civic Centre - hope to see you there!

Please come and show support!

Miki

[Miki Lentin]

Hi All

Just a quick late email to let you know that unfortunately we failed in stopping Antic getting an alcohol licence this evening at the hearing at Haringey Council.  Overall the committee thought that the mitigations that Antic plan to put in place to deal with issues around public nuisance especially would be enough to satisfy the councillor's concerns.

So Antic have been granted a licence albeit with some shortened hours - I don't have the precise information here, but will email it around when I get it.  The one thing I do remember from the decision is that their late licence has been set until 12.30 on Thurs - Sat and not 1am, but that doesn't make a massive difference.

Needless to say I am very disappointed that the views of local residents have not been taken into consideration at all, seemingly.  I'm not sure where this leaves us, but I can see that Antic will need change of use in order to run it as a pub but I doubt that will be too difficult as they now have the licence.  We'll see now what CAWD decide to do also.

Any thoughts on next stages would be appreciated.

Best wishes and thanks for your support.

Miki