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There are big plans afoot to change the road layouts at the Archway. There is a picture here of the proposed layout at Archway after the TfL changes

A pretty substantial implication of this is that some of the bus stops have to move. A pretty substantial implication of this is that some of the routes have to change. Mainly the changes are only around the terminus, but that still means your old habits for catching the 41 and the W5 will need to change.

It looks to me as though the 41 will now leave from the new bus stop (opposite E)  on the map below, or from M , all the way over on St. John's Way. Neither of these is as convenient as the current arrangement.

The W5 seems to leave from stop E , also a bit more of a hike than at present.

Check I have understood this correctly on the TfL consultation page about Archway and reply to their survey on this Archway consultation survey link.


Cheryl Juckes on Facebook foresees the beautiful new pedestrian precinct becoming a crime hot spot. " .  .  .  .  . but the creation of a pedestrianised area at the bottom of Highgate Hill will mean there is a great space for potential crime.".  Is she unduly pessimistic? 

What could TfL do? Presumably they have thought about this very carefully, but if the one way system they now propose ran the other way then the beginning of the bus journeys (without passengers) might be a bit more tortuous, but the W5 and the 41 could both stop where they do at present, very close to the station.

Tags: 41, archway, archway gyratory, w5

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This analysis of the proposed has been circulated by the Better Archway Forum. Looks pretty thorough to me.

Archway Bus Consultation

With the go-ahead on the Archway road changes now announced, TfL has finally organised a consultation on the bus services. Sadly, they haven't seen fit to ask what the users need.  

The consultation is at https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/archway-consultation/consult...Please do complete it, and urge as many others as possible to do the same. Our recommended answers would be as follows, though best if put into your own words: 

Questions 1-4/ - Answer "No" 
Question 5/  Proposals worsen public transport, not improve as would be feasible.  In particular: 
  • Loss of common stopping places for buses up Highgate Hill (143, 210, 271 & W5), up Archway Road (43, 134 & 263), to Crouch End (41 & W5) or to East Finchley (143 & 263).  
  • Loss of stop for northbound 17, 43 and 263 at Archway station without crossing roads. 
  • Loss of convenient interchange for instance Northbound from 43, 134, 390 and 263  to 41, 143, 210 and W5. 
  • No improvement to the poor interchange between buses terminating from the north to those starting to the south. 
  • Worsened interchange instead of improved access from the North to Upper Holloway station which is not even indicated on the proposal map. 
  • Worsened interchange instead of improved access to the Hospital from the South. 
  • Wasteful empty bus running. 
    By running buses to the ‘points of demand’ ie in Archway the Whittington hospital, which a lot of people want to reach, and Upper Holloway overground station, where the services have been growing ever more heavily used, and will be more so when electrified later this year. So the northbound buses 390, 17 and 41 would terminate at the hospital where there is turning space in front, before standing either next to the hospital on Magdala Avenue or Highgate Hill, where the changes mean there will be less traffic next to the old university campus. And southbound the smaller W5 and single decker 143 would run to St John’s church and stand there (next to Archway Market) before turning and starting north again.
  • Some bus stand retained and other through bus routing introduced in the inappropriate side streets of Vorley Road and Macdonald Road. 
    Currently they plan to stand the 41 bus in McDonald Road, when it would be better to run it right up to the hospital. This is particularly the case as, for reasons I don’t understand, TfL won’t allow passengers to alight from buses at the bus stand, only at the earlier bus stop. This means that instead of being allowed to walk the shorter distance from McDonald Road to the hospital entrance, the proposal is to drop passengers outside the Co-op on the opposite side of Junction Road, so they will have to wait at the crossing, battle past the increased wind blight of the tower, and then on up the slope. The best option is to run the 41 to the hospital before standing with the other routes.
  • Bus stands taking up two lanes of Archway Road which, not needed for traffic, could be put to better use. 
    This is a long term issue but with the A1 only one lane in both directions both to the north (on Archway Road north of the bridge) and south (at the top of Holloway Road) the bulge in road capacity at the bottom end of Archway Road does not serve any purpose in promoting traffic flow. One of the carriageways could therefore be repurposed, either as originally as housing, or as a linear green park. The second would be my personal preference, but there is a great deal of demand for new housing.
The plan is noted " every journey matters" in which case these concerns, all previously known to TfL, should have been addressed before and not only after the current consultation. 

Question 6-10/ Personal factual 

Question 11/ It is not good practice to consult again on proposals that do not meet the needs of users, passengers and bus operators, especially when the arguments against the proposals have already been made clear to TfL in previous consultations. They are summarised below. 
1. Traffic Hierarchy - For more than 20 years the aspirations have been to improve pedestrian and access and public transport interchange by reverting to traffic hierarchy.

Doing so would have the added benefit of reducing traffic currently attracted by the prospect of this short modernised dual carriageway section on the otherwise much narrower A1 between St Paul's Cathedral and Henly's Corner. 

2. Right turn from St John's Way -  To allow the reintroduction of the right turn if the future traffic situation permits, it would be most cost effective for the physical layout to be installed to allow either option, with only white lining and traffic light phasing to be adjusted.

There are currently three traffic lanes in St John's Way, one in each direction plus a bus lane west­bound. These might become one in each direction plus a short right ­turn filter lane for the few vehicles involved, perhaps proceeding on every other phase. This would still be quicker than detour through Vorley Road or other side streets and in accordance with good practice allows a common stop for all buses up Highgate Hill.

The comments on the effect on capacity are much as those made to say that all ­green phases could not be installed at the Archway Road junctions with Shepherds Hill and with Muswell Hill Road, now both satisfactorily in operation. 

3. Traffic impact on local roads - Given that the right turn from St John's Way is the lightest movement, only a short right ­turn filter lane is needed with the turn incorporated only at every other phase of the traffic lights. 

The one time banned left­ turn from Archway Road into Muswell Hill Road was said to improve traffic capacity and flow, but this included vehicles continuing south to turn around the gyratory and return north to turn right into Muswell Hill Road, extra traffic that was not needed and benefits that were illusory. 

4. Bus stands - The other strand of the whole concept throughout has been to mitigate the current unsatisfactory public transport interchange arrangements, not least having to cross roads to change between buses that share a length of road, or being obliged to change bus to reach one further stop up to the Hospital or down to the now TfL OvergrounD station of Upper Holloway. Current proposals actually make interchange worse and remove common stops to common destinations.

The Whittington Hospital has been pressing for meeting TfL so as to allow buses from the south to set down and turn in the Magdala Avenue forecourt (where there is space for this to happen). The service is needed to take visitors up hill to their appointments where as the walk back down afterwards is not the same problem.

Space exists within the public highway for buses from the north to turn from Holloway Road into Pemberton Gardens, set down for the station, turn to stand and return without adversely impacting on other traffic such as out of service to the Metroline garage.

Instead of the current empty mileage through the Vorley Road stand and proposed empty mileage up and down Archway Road, the proposals above would use those miles (and expenditure) to carry passengers to where they need to be taken. By overlapping they also mitigate the poorer public transport interchange currently proposed. 

Thus we are very close and will be there when these two elements are satisfactorily addressed. 

If you have any queries about any of this before responding, please contact contact@betterarchway.org.uk

Anyone know what this means?

1. Traffic Hierarchy - For more than 20 years the aspirations have been to improve pedestrian and access and public transport interchange by reverting to traffic hierarchy.

Doing so would have the added benefit of reducing traffic currently attracted by the prospect of this short modernised dual carriageway section on the otherwise much narrower A1 between St Paul's Cathedral and Henly's Corner. 

Archway Forum's explanation:

Traffic Hierarchy is the quick way of saying that the bigger you are, the larger the road you  should be limited to. So while pedestrians can happily use residential roads of all kinds, HGVs should be directed to use only trunk routes such as the A1.


The current scheme proposes to run buses (a form of HGV) on Vorley Road, and runs the risk of other traffic being displaced through Whitehall Park, which is clearly a residential area. We are therefore effectively pushing for the right turn to be permitted from St John’s Way, which would prompt the larger vehicles to stick to the A1, so adhering to traffic hierarchy.  Does that make sense?

I have replied to the consultation as follows

Q 1- 4 - NO!


Your proposals make matters worse not better. I live in Crouch End and would benefit from the choice of W5 and 41 when coming home via the underground to Archway, which presently I can achieve at a single stop. Your proposals separate these two routes so that I must choose one or the other. This makes matters worse for me. I understand that this separation has happened several times with other pairs of routes.
Also, I also think there must be a way to get one or more routes to pass through the service road outside the Whittington main entrance on Magdala Avenue. Despite a huge disruption to the services this has not been achieved.
You have also introduced a number of empty bus runs and chosen to have bus stands on inappropriate side roads.

Q6 -10 Personal Stuff

Q11 The consultation has beautiful diagrams and looks very good. Unfortunately the proposals are not up to the same standard

My response was ANON-RWPX-XAJ8-C


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